NHL Odds and Ends
The possibility certainly exists that 5 of the 6 post-lockout Stanley Cup finalists won’t make the playoffs this year. Ottawa has all but been eliminated while Pittsburgh, Carolina, Edmonton and Anaheim all remain on the bubble. Detroit is the only post-lockout conference winner to be securely in a playoff spot. Is that a result of parity or mass mediocrity?
Brian Burke has a history of reacquiring players he knows well. This is why he went after Brad May in a minor move and this is why I believe that there is a more than good chance that he’ll try to bring in the Sedin twins this summer if Vancouver fails to re-sign them. But another player to look at is JS Giguere in Anaheim who has all but lost his job, at least in the short term, to Jonas Hiller, and the Ducks might be interested in shedding salary so they can fill in holes elsewhere in their lineup. The only caveat is Giguere’s no trade clause but if he’ll likely waive it instead of being a backup.
Speaking of Leafs goaltending, Brian Burke and Ron Wilson put out the challenge to Vesa Toskala to improve his practice habits and in turn improve his game which has been mediocre at best this season. How much has goaltending hurt the Leafs? Well, they have the worst team save percentage this year at 87.5%. If they could improve that to a measly 10th worst in the league, or 90.1%, the Leafs would have allowed 149 goals instead of 188 goals. Combine that with their 155 goals for and they would have the same number of goals for and against as the Montreal Canadiens, who are sitting in 5th spot in the conference 15 points ahead of the Leafs.
Tampa couldn’t do it, Ottawa is failing at it, and Pittsburgh is on the verge of missing the playoffs because of it. I am talking about spending a boat load of money on two or three mostly offensive oriented forwards. Tampa spent a lot of money on Lecavalier, Richards and St. Louis and failed to obtain much success. Ottawa has seen their defense decimated and goaltending faulter because they have spent too much on Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson (and to a lesser extent Fisher). In Pittsburgh they have spent some money on defense and goaltending in addition to their big two of Crosby and Malking, but that meant that Crosby and Malkin are pretty much playing on their own.
I have said this before but it deserves mentioning again, I think Dave Tippett of the Dallas Stars is one of the most under rated coaches in the NHL. This team not that long ago was the worst team in the NHL but post Sean Avery they have an outstanding 18-8-3 record which has propelled them into 5th spot in the western conference.
One of the most under rated defenseman in the NHL has to be Dennis Wideman who is having an outstanding season in Boston. He ranks 6th in points and tied for 5th in goals by defensemen adn his +31 ranking is second in the league for any player. If he continues to play like this into next season he’ll deserve some consideration for the Canadian Olympic team.
When I scan down the list of top point producers in the NHL this year I see a lot of familiar names but no on ever mentions the outstanding year that David Krejci is having with 56 points and sitting 12th in league scoring. He is a big reason for the Bruin’s success and ability to survive injuries to Bergeron and Sturm.
Has Jason Blake played well enough to make him tradeable, or has he played so well the Leafs won’t want to trade him. He is on pace for 30 goals, 65 points and for a guy who kills penalties as well he is more than earning his $4 million salary cap hit this year.
It is hard to be optimistic about the New York Islanders future when their leading point producers up front are Doug Weight, Bill Guerin, Trent Hunter, Richard Park and Mike Comrie. That is not a group of players to build a future around.
other
David Johnson
“Time will tell, but 8+M for a 37 yr old has been…take off the rose coloured glassed Canucklehead”
Is the 8 mill+ spent on Alfie next year going to help the Sens even make the playoffs, let alone do something positive if they make the playoffs?
I don’t understand this – the Canucks don’t win the last 3 games without Sundin – what does it matter if he costs a prorated 8 mill or 5 mill or 11 mill when the Canucks, like Ottawa, can spend to the cap each year – better to overpay on a short-term contract when cap room is available than overpay on a long-term contract and handcuff oneself from signing young players or improving if the team sucks…
And lets get one other thing clear Gerald – Bryan Murray TRIED to get into the Sundin sweepstakes – he told the media as much as I’m sure u remember – but he didnt have the money to do it and improve because most of the money was spent on homegrown Senators…
Because paying a guy 8.6M, at 37, when he is nowhere near elite, raises the salary for every player. It’s stupid money, and just because the team has the cap room, doesn’t mean the deal is reasonable.
See how this deal haunts them when they try to sign their FA’s…I know I’d expect similar money if my numbers were as good.
Tried and failed, or tried and walked away? Discretion is the better part of valour my friend.
As for the Sens, time will tell how it all shakes out, and I suspect things will change, then suddenly, the trash talk will suddenly dry up.
But, I’m still waiting for so much as a shred of evidence to support this whole cap theory.
Gerald, the cap theory is the argument David put forward which I did mention in the last post – however, did this not all start in regards to whether or not BM should be fired instead of Hartsburg? There was more than one argument being put forward – you are not showing a shred of evidence as to why the Sens will be better next year or why this is not Murray’s fault – I have given u facts to dispute regarding Murray’s tenure as GM – u simply respond to the comments u feel like and ignore others – if, for example, the Sens can dump Fisher and move Heatley (I doubt Alfie is going anywhere) for something like Dustin Brown, then I agree that they can be a very good team quickly – however, the core 4 needs to change, if for no other reason than to change the culture of a group that simply gets worse every year and does not deserve another chance to stay together…
gerald
raises the salary for every player.
thats an opinion gerald not a fact
So Gerald, if Brian Campbell gets 7.14 mill a year for 8 years at the age of 29, doesn’t this mean that Keith should be getting the same and Kane and Toews should be getting even more? They are all better players than Campbell. Just like paying a never-has-been-elite feeder like Alfie over 8 mill next year and giving a checking centre like Fisher a 5 year contract for over 4 mill – contracts do raise the market, no doubt, but it typically affects other teams, not the one who signs the player in question – and in a world where drury, gomez, redden all make near 7 mill for 5+ year contracts (man Sather is an idiot) offering a short-term, high average salary to a player who has never been a feeder and is still damn good is a whole lot smarter…your “overpaying” theory is just hyperbole, a baseless theory -conjecture – it obfuscates the fact that u have not proven anything…
Mark, no, it’s a statement of fact, supported by a millenia of economic date…sheesh!
Ted, what?
This tread is about how OTT, like other teams, is hamstrung by spending too much salary on forwards.
I’ve shown where this is not true.
Nobody has shown anything to support this theory, at all whatsoever.
Why will the Sens be better?
Coaching, improved goaltending, improved roster.
So, raising salaries effect the other teams, not the one signing the contract, that is your theory? Good luck with that.
Alfie is averaging 5.4M, and you seem to consider this bad, but Sundin at 8.6M is not? Seriously? How do you come up with this stuff? I don’t make you say it, but I’m sure as hell not going to swallow it.
“Feeder”, what the hell is that anyhow, a passer? Now you’re just bashing players to take out your frustrations, like I give a crap.
Ted, Mark, you are honestly saying Mats is worth 8.6M?
More then;
Zets,
Luongo,
Thornton,
Lecalvelier,
and equal to Crosby and Malkin?
Get real. If you weren’t Canuck fans you’d think it was a stupid deal too.
Seriously Gerald, why do u only look at the average annual salary and not the term – u act like the term is meaningless – Alfredson is only a very good player when playing with Spezza and Heatley – why is it that these 3 forwards can’t even comprise TWO quality scoring lines? Alfredson is on pace for around 25 goals this year, while Sundin is on pace for 40 over a full season – and if it doesn’t work out, we’re done with him at the end of the year – let’s see how u like Alfredson at age 38 or 39 with a shrinking cap…let’s see if the Sens can improve without dumping him…
And Gerald – I’m pretty sure the Sens would rather have Sundin and a pylon over Alfie and Fisher – at least he has shown that he can consistently produce with mediocre players – it is merely your opinion that Sundin is not elite…it is merely your opinion that Sundin for a prorated 8.6 mill for half a year and the playoffs is worse than alfie for 22 over the next 4…this is a baseless theory, pure conjecture – it obfuscates the fact that everyone here knows u are an idiot – the first to insult everyone when u prove nothing – i hope u enjoy the BJ bryan murray gives u tonight – i hope it’s worth defending your pathetic team that spends to the cap to secure a lottery pick…
lol
Proof:
The Pens need a winger but can’t get one.
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/hockey/fhl/story?page=shots081030
Trading Boyle was cap-space related.
http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/2008/06/agent-boyle-inc.html
Beyond that I don’t know what else I can say. Your refusal to believe that the Sens’ season is lost and that the defense needs an overhaul is really blinding you. Take off those glasses, buddy.
This tread is about how OTT, like other teams, is hamstrung by spending too much salary on forwards.
I’ve shown where this is not true.
No you haven’t. All you have done is put together a hypothetical lineup that included Brian Campbell while having an AHLer on the second line. There is no evidence that this lineup could contend.
The real evidence is what has happened in Tampa, Ottawa and now Pittsburgh.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09042/948274-61.stm
Here’s another.
Jason,
Show where, the Sens current cap situation precluded Murray from adressing his roster needs (top 6 forward, top 2 d-man).
Enough with other teams, I could careless, and as I’ve said, they have different situations, just answer the question already.
Ted, if yu really believe Murrau would rather Sundin then Alfie, you have absolutely no grasp on reality, plain and simple. Bash away, but, I’ve yet to actually read an argument.
David, fine, here then;
Heatley – Spezza – Alfie
Vermette – Fisher – Ryder
Foligno – Winchester – Neil
Schubert – Bass – Donnovan
Campbell – Kuba
Phillips – Volchenkov
Picard – Lee
Gerber
Auld
Look, nobody will defend the argument.
1. Ted wants to bash players to pump up his belief that Sundin, at 37, is worth being paid at as the 4th best player in the NHL. Frankly, that’s stupid.
2. Mark seems to believe that Buffalo is doing better now then in 05/06 and 06/07. That’s stupid. He also believes it’s speculation that paying inflated salaries causes salary inflation. That’s stupid.
3. Jason, refuses to actually answer a very direct and simple question. That’s convenient.
4. David looks like a politician, he wont answer a direct question, and in the face of concrete opposing facts, he twists and tangles his argument to avoid admitting he has no argument.
Hey, all you have to do is answer the question, but none of you will. You think I’m confused, or wrong, fine, point out how, but you wont. As such, enjoy your baseless group think, and if things turn around, I’m sure I won’t read you saying you were wrong. Why? Because you’ve refused to actually debate, so why would I expect actual integrity then?
Ottawa has 3.42m in cap space. If they had kept Meszaros that number would be lower. Brian Campbell’s cap hit is 7.14. By re-signing Fisher, Kelly, and Vermette Murray put himself out of contention for Campbell (assuming that he did go after him). He let Chara and Redden go and replaced neither.
Your refusal to look at other teams just shows your ignorance.
“Enough with other teams, I could careless, and as I’ve said, they have different situations, just answer the question already.”
There’s a saying for that: “Learn from the mistakes of others. You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself.”
Gerald said: Show where, the Sens current cap situation precluded Murray from adressing his roster needs (top 6 forward, top 2 d-man). Jason, refuses to actually answer a very direct and simple question.
It may be a ‘simple question’ to state, but it’s quite difficult to construct an answer to your level of satisfaction. In fact, I’d say it verges on the impossible since you believe that IT CAN’T BE DONE.
I for one think Jason provided two compelling arguments by citing two other organizations that are having problems addressing their needs (Pittsburg’s inability to sign a top line winger for Crosby, TBay having to deal away Danny Boyle) because of how their cap pie is sliced. Both of these cases support the argument that loading up your top line with huge contracts prevents you from filling other ‘roster needs’ on your team, and hence achieving success.
Since you’ve asked explicitly, here’s how I think you’re confused/wrong: if you ask for an answer, you need to be prepared to genuinely entertain arguments that cite similar problems experienced by teams other than the Sens.
This tread is about how OTT, like other teams, is hamstrung by spending too much salary on forwards.
I’ve shown where this is not true.
I have to agree with DJ. Posting a roster that includes Brian Campbell and Michael Ryder doesn’t *prove* they would make Ottawa contenders. At best, it shows that in another world the Sens have this lineup. Yeah, I’ll agree that they would be better, but probably not even top 4 in the conference. Although, I’d check your arithmetic again because I think that at their current salaries that lineup is over the cap.
This tread is about how OTT, like other teams, is hamstrung by spending too much salary on forwards.
I’ve shown where this is not true.
What would be more convincing than hypothetical lineups would be arguments for how it isn’t true for those other teams Jason mentions (Tampa Bay and Pittsburg), not just Ottawa.
Jason, do you even read my posts?
Murray had over 17M to spend going into the ’08 off season.
Do some bloody research, and base your statements on fact.
I’m not refusing to look at other teams, I’m refusing to make the absurd leap that because other teams may or may not have such salary issues (which you’ve never proven, let alone tied to Ottawa), it default applies to Ottawa.
Again, just answer the damn question, or let it go and admit you can’t, is it really so hard to do? Are you so obsesses with appearing right that you feel beyond actually defending your point of view, but instead blindly attack mine?
I’ve posted a roster Murray could have signed, including Campbell, yet still, you say he couldn’t have? Based on what, prove that claim.
Did you know that Vermette, Smith, Ruutu, Donovan, and Bell were ALL signed AFTER Campbell…probably not, or, once again, you wouldn’t be making stuff up, instead of just answering the simple question.
BTW Jason, he did not let Chara go, another entirely false claim.
Nor did he let Redden go, Redden had an NMC, and refused to waive it. Muckler gave him the NMC.
You obviously just don’t know what you’re talking about.
Bob, so, if I can prove where Ottawa was not hamstrung by salary (which, BTW, was very simple to do, and, if I were wrong, David would have said so, vs switching it to contender, which was just lame), why would I then also have to prove that these other teams could as well? Honestly, what does the issues of one team have to do with the other? Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to have Jason actually demonstrate how it does apply to Ottawa? Why, after proving it doesn’t, would this entirely obsequious responsibility fall to me, and even more ridiculously, preclude my direct empirical argument from being considered?
Honestly, your post is absurd from a logic point of view, and either you can see it, and don’t care (because you WANT me to be wrong), or worse, you actually think it made sense.
Gerald u are carrying over the argument that we had in the last post – in fact, the premise of this post is based on EXACTLY what I said in the last post about how the nhl is cyclical and that winning teams haven’t really picked the right players to keep or spend too much on a “core” and keep diluting their talent and depth -the examples of tbay, carolina, pittsburgh are the ones I gave before so this is just a carry-over of what I was saying earlier- as everyone here can see, you are impossible to convince and you also refuse to answer our questions – u just put forward baseless theories, pure hyperbole which further obfuscates the fact that you understand next to nothing about cap management. You believe signing Campbell (and thereby further diluting the depth and ability to sign prospects etc) would make the Sens significantly better?
And acting as though Ryder would be playing this well in Ottawa is a bit of a stretch. Ryder is simply a piece in a team that is loaded with depth – in Ottawa who knows if he’d even be a top 6 forward.
And why not answer my question about the term of Alfredson’s contract? Why not put forward a reason as to why Alfie will help the Sens over the next 4 years at that price and why Sundin is not helping the Canucks on his one year deal? Please explain this – you keep saying “37 year old” as though that is evidence for your argument as opposed to the fact that he is actually scoring at a high clip and now that he is back in game shape looks like he could carry this team into the playoffs, possibly to a division title and possibly winning a round or two. That is a lot of playoff revenue generated, fan intrest generated for money that would have simply gone into revenue sharing for a high payroll team…Alfredson’s age 36-39 years at 22 mill will accomplish what exactly? Many players should be able to play with Spezza and ALfredson and produce, and up to this point that is the only time Alfredson ever produces…
Why not answer many of my questions or anyone else’s? I hope Bryan Murray’s juice tastes good, otherwise you are looking like a stubborn idiot on a hockey blog for no good reason.
*I meant Spezza and Heatley (obviously) in my last post…commenting at work precludes having the time to edit properly…
As for this entirely BS “contender” cop out, here is the ACTUAL context;
“The possibility certainly exists that 5 of the 6 post-lockout Stanley Cup finalists won’t make the playoffs this year.”
Note – “playoffs”, not Stanley Cup contenders [whatever that entirely subjective term even means].
Ted, I’ve only ever asked one question, nobody has answered it, nobody.
How has the Sens cap situation kept them from adressing their roster needs (top D man, top 6 forward?)
Just answer it.
As for Alfie, I’m not even sure what question you’re talking about, as, if you haven’t noticed, 4 seperate posters are bombarding me with posts, so I apologize if I missed some new entirely off topic question you raise, instead of answering my one simple question.
Alfie, he’smaking 5.4M. Do I think he’ll earn that for the next 4 years…probably not, but he will for 3 of them, and contribute in the 4th. But, how am I to predict this, nor can you.
Sundin, at 37, maikng the 4th highest cap salary in the league is stupidity, and it was done by a new GM to try to “make a spash”. Will it work, maybe, but I doubt it, but only time will tell. But what it will do, is raise the salary expectation of every FA in the market, and that is bad for everyone, even the moron GM who over-paid to begin with. Vancouver won’t be immune, in fact, they are the first victim, and will be victimized for being victimized, by their own stupidity.
BTW, Alfie was being paid far below market value for years, and I don’t begrudge him a dime of his contract.
Happy now? How about showing me how the Sens salary situation kept them from signing a top 2 Dman and a second line centre (btw, Ryder is a generic second line centre, his 4M salary is the point, not him specifically, I thought that would be obvious, but I guess not, or maybe it was, but instead of answering my question, you went off on another diversionary tack).
Gerald, you are grasping at straws now. That comment was in a completely different part of the article and referencing a completely different issue. The paragraph in question reads:
Tampa couldn’t do it, Ottawa is failing at it, and Pittsburgh is on the verge of missing the playoffs because of it. I am talking about spending a boat load of money on two or three mostly offensive oriented forwards. Tampa spent a lot of money on Lecavalier, Richards and St. Louis and failed to obtain much success. Ottawa has seen their defense decimated and goaltending faulter because they have spent too much on Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson (and to a lesser extent Fisher). In Pittsburgh they have spent some money on defense and goaltending in addition to their big two of Crosby and Malking, but that meant that Crosby and Malkin are pretty much playing on their own.
In that paragraph I talk about Tampa, who did make the playoffs with the big three in 2005-06 and 2006-07, but failed to be a real contending team. No one would consider those Tampa teams to have any kind of a shot at making it deep into the playoffs. I never once drew the line at making the playoffs.
In case you are uncertain as to the point that I am trying to make: I do not believe that if you spend a significant portion of your salary budget on forwards, can you adequately build enough of a quality team around those forwards.
Again, the evidence is Tampa, Ottawa and Pittsburgh have failed to build a top quality team around their high priced star forwards. The additional evidence is that you cannot point out another team that has done so.
You main counter argument seems to be that the Senators could have signed this player or that player and then you postulate that if they did they would be a much better team. That’s a fine hypothetical argument and we can debate whether that hypothetical team can be considered contenders, but instead you seem hellbent on nitpicking semantics and details and ignoring the major evidence of what we have seen in reality in Tampa, Pittsburgh and Ottawa.
David, and it said “contender” where?
I’m sory if I mistook your meaning from the opening paragraph of your blog, then also misunderstood the implied “contender” status in the ;ater paragraph, bith of which, I might add, refrenced Ottawa, in the exact same context, failing to make the post season.
David, you’re refusing to accept responsibility for defending your own argument, and the feable “details” and “grasping at straws” BS should be reserved for an argument with a 5th grader. The meaning, context, and direct statements of your blog are plainly obvious, your willingness to accept responsibility for them notwithstanding.
David, you have proposed a theory (slary constraints precluded teams x,y,z, from being competitive). Great. Now, if you will be so kind, instead of simply asking me to assue you are right, because you say so, indicate to me what players these teams should have signed, but their cap situation precluded them from doing so. You have isolated one variable (cap space/distribution) and assigned to it the bulk of the reason for teams failure to make the post season (you never said contend). Please, feel free to provide examples which excludes all other variables, and highlights how the one you have theorized upon, has done so.
I have shown how the Sens, with 17M in cap space, had the money available to spend on quality players (they;re names are irrelevant, the salary is).
Just defend your statements, and quit changing/denying/justifying them instead, is that really so unreasonable to ask of you?
Ted, I’ve only ever asked one question, nobody has answered it, nobody.
How has the Sens cap situation kept them from adressing their roster needs (top D man, top 6 forward?)
Just answer it.
As for Alfie, I’m not even sure what question you’re talking about, as, if you haven’t noticed, 4 seperate posters are bombarding me with posts, so I apologize if I missed some new entirely off topic question you raise, instead of answering my one simple question.
Alfie, he’smaking 5.4M. Do I think he’ll earn that for the next 4 years…probably not, but he will for 3 of them, and contribute in the 4th. But, how am I to predict this, nor can you.
Sundin, at 37, maikng the 4th highest cap salary in the league is stupidity, and it was done by a new GM to try to “make a spash”. Will it work, maybe, but I doubt it, but only time will tell. But what it will do, is raise the salary expectation of every FA in the market, and that is bad for everyone, even the moron GM who over-paid to begin with. Vancouver won’t be immune, in fact, they are the first victim, and will be victimized for being victimized, by their own stupidity.
BTW, Alfie was being paid far below market value for years, and I don’t begrudge him a dime of his contract.
Happy now? How about showing me how the Sens salary situation kept them from signing a top 2 Dman and a second line centre (btw, Ryder is a generic second line centre, his 4M salary is the point, not him specifically, I thought that would be obvious, but I guess not, or maybe it was, but instead of answering my question, you went off on another diversionary tack).
I’m amazed that so many are determined to be right, because they want to be, but at the same time, refuse to provide a basis for their argument, it’s laughable.
It’s painfully obvious nobody on this thread is actually willing (or more accurately) able to defend their opinion with fact, other then me. As such, have at it, enjoy your “truthiness”, lol!
Bob, so, if I can prove where Ottawa was not hamstrung by salary (which, BTW, was very simple to do,
Really? No one else seems convinced of your very simple explanation. Honestly Gerald, I think you might have some arguments in there, I just think you don’t know how to debate without getting angry and making lots of ad hominem remarks.
Honestly, what does the issues of one team have to do with the other?
The issues of one team have to do with others because Jason and David are arguing that *any* NHL team with 3-4 forwards signed to long term contracts at ~50% of their salary cap allowance run into problems addressing the needs of the rest of their roster, and that this is a poor way to manage a successful franchise under this CBA. So to support this argument, they have cited examples.
Here’s what DJ posted:
Tampa couldn’t do it, Ottawa is failing at it, and Pittsburgh is on the verge of missing the playoffs because of it. I am talking about spending a boat load of money on two or three mostly offensive oriented forwards. Tampa spent a lot of money on Lecavalier, Richards and St. Louis and failed to obtain much success. Ottawa has seen their defense decimated and goaltending faulter because they have spent too much on Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson (and to a lesser extent Fisher). In Pittsburgh they have spent some money on defense and goaltending in addition to their big two of Crosby and Malking, but that meant that Crosby and Malkin are pretty much playing on their own.
Honestly, what does the issues of one team have to do with the other? Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to have Jason actually demonstrate how it does apply to Ottawa?
I, for one, think he already has. He and DJ argue that teams who dish out large contracts to 3-4 offensively oriented players make it difficult to succeed in filling holes in the rest of your lineup. They cite Pittsburg (struggling this year, unable to find a winger for Crosby), Tampa (struggling this year, unable to hang onto Boyle, secondary scorers), and Ottawa (struggling this year, unable to bolster their defense). All those teams are struggling this year. This supports their theory.
Why, after proving it doesn’t, would this entirely obsequious responsibility fall to me, and even more ridiculously, preclude my direct empirical argument from being considered?
Because a hypothetical lineup doesn’t have a record of success that you can use to support your argument. Who knows how that lineup (which I maintain is over the cap at current salaries, which supports their point) would perform? Against what opposition? See, it’s purely speculative and so isn’t convincing. It’s not an empirical argument because it’s a hypothetical (not actual) lineup with no record to support your claim that they would be successful. What you could do is point out one or more franchises that spend ~50% of their cap on 3-4 offensively oriented forwards, and are achieving success. Even better is if you could provide such samples while showing that they’ve been able to address pressing needs on their rosters as they come up.
David, you have proposed a theory (slary constraints precluded teams x,y,z, from being competitive). Great. Now, if you will be so kind, instead of simply asking me to assue you are right, because you say so, indicate to me what players these teams should have signed, but their cap situation precluded them from doing so.
I am not asking you to assume I am right, I am just asking you to consider the evidence. Tampa couldn’t fill a roster around their big three. Pittsburgh has failed to give their big two centers (Crosby in particular) adequate wingers. Ottawa is struggling mightily and the General Manager constantly states his desire to add a top 6 forward and an puck moving defenseman but can’t do one, let alone both, with $3 million in cap space. And he isn’t even talking about the questionable goaltending.
Maybe it can be done Gerald. Maybe a team can seriously content for a Stanley Cup with $20 million allocated to 3 forwards. But so far every team that has tried has failed miserably. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in Washington when Semin and Backstrom and Green all want big time contracts to go along with Ovechkin’s.
Are YOU reading my arguments right, Gerald? This is the last time I’ll ever say this because frankly this is just ridiculous. It’s like talking to a brick wall.
1 – Murray’s made mistakes, whether from the wrong action or just plain inaction. Either way, he has yet to fix any of the team’s problems.
2 – the Sens cannot flesh out the rest of their roster with quality players so long as they have so much money tied up on their top line (and an underachieving Fisher). Pittsburgh and Tampa suffered from the same problems, I don’t know how else I can make this any clearer. The dots are there – you just can’t seem to connect them.
3 – the trade rumours surrounding Heatley and Spezza are not only because they’ve struggled or play poor defense, but because it could potentially land the Sens a top flight prospect and some picks as well as giving them valuable cap space to spend over the summer on a Campbell-like player because that is their one glaring hole right now. I’ve already shown that trading valuable assets (Bure, Mogilny) is a viable solution to turn a franchise around and/or re-build.
Your HYPOTHETICAL roster is an erroneous argument because it’s based on speculation, not fact. I’m not saying the Sens COULDN’T have signed Campbell, I’m saying that the word “COULD” shouldn’t be anywhere near an argument that is, apparently, rooted in fact. The fact that Murray even TRIED to plug the holes with Ruutu, Smith, Donovan (bottom feeders) shows how inadequately he’s solved the team’s problems.
Jason and everyone else – what is the point of arguing cap management with Gerald – in another post, he suggested spending around 6 to 6.5 million on Bouwmeester – I challenged him and said that this would further make the Sens “top heavy” without dumping one or two of the “big 4″ but he believes spending 30 million on 5 players is the way to go…this is why he keeps bringing up his hypothetical Campbell signing to show how the big 4 do not preclude spending on a bigtime dman – well, of course, he also expects Elliot to be a saviour – when he is more likely to be another Alex Auld (looks good at points but probably a weak starter/strong backup) – let’s even say Elliot does become a solid starter – that will cost 4-6 million – let’s say Lee hits his stride and costs 3-4 million and Foligno is another 2 million – HOW THE HELL IS THIS TEAM GONNA FUNCTION AND PAY THEIR YOUNG TALENT WHEN 5 PLAYERS COST 30 MILLION?
On a side note in regards to Sundin – why is it that Gerald suddenly don’t seem as confident in his assessment about Sundin being a poor signing – is it because the sample size has increased from 10 games to 12 games? Is it because Sundin looks like he’ll transform a non-playoff team into at least a playoff team if not more? His “raising the market for others” is simply a theory with ZERO basis – he has no proof of this – he assumes it will hinder Vancouver in the future based on zero evidence – when, in fact, numerous contracts raise the market and have been doing so for years…it is never simply one contract – and another question for Gerald…other teams were willing to give Sundin 7 million – how does us giving him a prorated 8.6 (or even 10 mill for that matter) MAKE HIS CONTRIBUTION ANY LESS SIGNIFICANT TO OUR TEAM? You assume that paying Alfredson 9 million next year and then tacking on another 13.5 mill over 3 years to lower the cap number does more to improve the Sens?
As I’ve said from the beginning, locking up a line at such a high cost is the WORST cap management move a team can make in the new NHL – u notice how around the league their aren’t “lines” per se anymore – what teams are doing is either having a centrepiece of a line (i.e. Crosby) or a pair (i.e. Kane and Toews) and then adding a complimentary, hopefully cheap, piece such as a Versteeg – now Chicago and Washington and Boston and others will likely all get into the same problem that Ottawa is in…of course, this is all just speculation, pure hyperbole – I’m sure Washington will excel when they spend 9.5 mill on Ovechkin, 5.25 on Green and, for example, 12 million on Backstrom and Semin combined – 27 million on 4 players (though at least one of them is a defenseman) with a maybe 50 million dollar cap probably will not work…of course this is just a theory…a trend that is developing in the nhl and seems to be true, but their are no facts.
Gerald, it seems like your only argument is that the Sens had the money to sign a bigtime dman and second line winger (of course, if these were Ottawa’s only problems they likely wouldn’t suck this much). Apparently a quick analysis of the salary commitments makes u an expert – all u have done is show what everyone else here knows already – the reason your argument seems so rock solid is because it is extremely simple – u are not offering a way to make the sens better other than to become more top heavy – and based on the other teams in the nhl just like I have said in previous threads and everyone else agrees with, it does not work – so good luck drafting high this year – i hope u get tavares and that 4th year of alfredson’s contract means that he’ll be forced to retire or be exiled to the AHL because they have no money to sign tavares to an extension…the cycle of Ottawa sucking and building through high first round picks continues!
i believe we need to start a gerald free blog. then we can atleast have some real debates.Gerald your exactly like my father, u will never back down from an argument no matter how much it makes u look like an idiot. You continuely say everyone here is guilty of not answer your 1 simple question prove the big 4 cripple ottawa . The only fact you should need gerald is season ottawa is having on the ice there giving u more facts then anybody ever can.
but really were debating a topic here and u can’t debate a topic that is simply black and white the question really is can u win with 4 forwards being paid so much? yes you can… BUT and i say with a big but it’s extremely difficult to begin with cause it requires getting major secondary efforts in net or defense, where ever the team needs it and there only 1 way in this nhl where u get cheap players that can perform to a much superior value and thats entry level contracts.
Now gerald u mentioned they could have sign campbell and a player like ryder( i really don’t feel like look at all the numbers on this) but gerald plus answer these 2 questions? how would ottawa be able to either afford a real nhl goalie or afford elliot if he proves to be one ? and second outside of your big guys( heatley spezza fisher alfy campbell ryder) (as in your example) how could u afford to pay anybody else more then league minimum which is impossible since u still got phillips volchenkov etc?
this team sounds liek a 70 million cap team not a 50 ish mill team
Wow how did I miss out on 86 straight comments?
Where to begin, where to begin…
Ok I can’t say I read all 86 comments because I didn’t. But here’s what I have to say about the Sens over spending on the big 3… and their decision making over the past few seasons.
The Sens decided to let Chara walk rather than sign both him and Redden. Mistake.
They then decided to re-sign Heatley and Spezza rather than hold on to Redden. Mistake.
They also declined to trade any of their impending UFA’s rather than lose them for absolutely nothing. Mistake.
These are mistakes repeated by other clubs such as Buffalo.
It also works against the franchise in a number of ways. Most obviously, the players that do stay tend to have an improved position at the bargaining table because they ARE willing to stick around. The fan base also becomes concerned the team will lose more free agents so the team has greater impetus to get things dealt with.
Trading Chara and Redden would have netted the Senators a lot of those “young” talented prospects that they seem to lack at this point in time.
Dealing Mesazaros was probably the right thing to do, whether or not they got fair return is irrelevant. They couldn’t afford to over pay him, so they didn’t. They probably needed to come to these realizations with OTHER players in their past.
Three men make a Tiger.